The Drug War

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The Drug War

Post by CivBase on Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:15 pm

Mexico is caught in a bit of a pickle. Drug cartels rule the country in a way not dissimilar to a mafia or even a terrorist organization. Corruption is spread heavily throughout all levels of the government and local enforcement is almost useless compared to the power of the cartels. America's recent economic hardships have put many Mexican's out of a job (factory closings and whatnot), but cartels and gangs pay well. The more action taken against the cartels, the more violence that erupts. It's extremely dangerous for tourists to just leave the resorts. Some of the blame can be placed on the US: southern border states are pro-gun ownership and have lax purchasing laws, making it easy for cartels to arm themselves with advanced weapons.

What should the US do?

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Re: The Drug War

Post by Avenged on Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:18 pm

Well we will soon see some of these gang leaders getting elected into political positions and if we can't act before that there will essentially be nothing we can do besides just put up a bigger fence

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Re: The Drug War

Post by PiEdude on Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:17 am

...Duct tape?
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Re: The Drug War

Post by RX on Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:28 am

Napalm.
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Re: The Drug War

Post by Rotaretilbo on Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:20 pm

Well, if we build a wall, it will hamper the cartels from obtaining weapons in the US. We could also ramp up gun policies to include mandatory background checks and such whatnot.

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Re: The Drug War

Post by Kasrkin Seath on Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:32 pm

If we nuke it from orbit....

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Re: The Drug War

Post by KristallNacht on Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:50 pm

why would drug cartels come to america to buy guns?

everyone knows china sells AK-47s for a dollar a dozen
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Re: The Drug War

Post by Avenged on Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:11 pm

Money ain't a problem for these cartels

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Re: The Drug War

Post by Vtrooper on Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:45 pm

Direct Intervention? Deploy Special Forces teams to help the Mexican Army? US Navy Missile and Air Support? call Captain Scott Mitchell? who the hell knows?
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Re: The Drug War

Post by Avenged on Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:31 pm

Yes let's risk American lives at the expensive of a country that has a terrible economy and an already corrupt goverment.....great idea.

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Re: The Drug War

Post by Vtrooper on Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:23 pm

do i really need to explain that Avenged?
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Re: The Drug War

Post by Avenged on Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:41 pm

We should help better equip Mexico at the most

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Re: The Drug War

Post by Nocbl2 on Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:42 pm

I say we just leave them alone. Let them sort out their own problems. Join up with Spain? lol I can imagine it now... "Uh... hey guys... remember that colony you sent out a few hundred years back? Yeah, if you could, y'know..."
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Re: The Drug War

Post by Angatar on Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:50 pm

Leaving people with money and power to right themselves never works. Ever.

Nukes won't hurt for as long though.

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Re: The Drug War

Post by KristallNacht on Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:54 pm

Avenged wrote:Money ain't a problem for these cartels

but dirt and improper weapons maintenance is, hence the use of AKs.
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Re: The Drug War

Post by PiEdude on Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:54 pm

Avenged wrote:Yes let's risk American lives at the expensive of a country that has a terrible economy and an already corrupt goverment.....great idea.

It worked with killing Pablo Escobar.
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Re: The Drug War

Post by Ruski on Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:42 am

Courtesy of MSN.com and The Associated Press

MEXICO CITY Mexican special forces marines captured Sergio Villarreal Barragan, allegedly a top member of the embattled Beltran Leyva cartel who appears on a list of the country's most-wanted fugitives, in a raid Sunday in the central state of Puebla, the government said.

Villarreal, known as "El Grande," did not put up any resistance when he was arrested along with two accomplices as they left a residence in Puebla city, according to government security spokesman Alejandro Poire. The raid involved 30 Navy marines, five vehicles and a helicopter.

"This is a new and resounding blow by the federal government against crime, given the high rank and dangerousness of this person inside one of the country's most extensive criminal organizations which has been deeply weakened," Poire said in a statement.

The marines had already taken control of the high-end gated community called "Puerta de Hierro," or Iron Door, minutes before storming the house, according to Mexican newspaper El Universal. The military asked Villarreal's neighbors to close their doors and hide in the most secure parts of their homes, the paper added in a story on its website.

The 30 marines involved didn't fire a bullet because Villarreal handed himself over without a struggle, the newspaper reported.

Neighbors told journalists from El Universal that El Grande's home, a sprawling Moorish structure with domes and arches, reminded them of a hotel complex. Inside, it appeared that preparations were being made for a children's party. Marines found maps of El Grande's supply routes in the states of Puebla, Morelos and beyond on the floors of some rooms, the newspaper reported.

According to El Universal, Marines took about 3 suitcases from the home, although they left two Schnauzer dogs.

Fourth major blow
Villarreal's capture is the fourth major blow delivered to drug cartels by the government of President Felipe Calderon in the past year.

First came the death of Arturo Beltran Leyva, the top leader of Beltran Leyva cartel, in a raid outside Mexico City on Dec. 16, 2009. Then soldiers killed the Sinaloa cartel's No. 3 capo, Ignacio "Nacho" Coronel, on July 29. And on Aug. 30 federal police announced the capture of Edgar Valdez Villarreal, alias "La Barbie." The two men are not related.

Villarreal, an enemy of La Barbie's, appears on an Attorney General's Office list of Mexico's most-wanted drug traffickers and has a reward of just over $2 million for his capture.

He is listed as one of the top remaining leaders of the Beltran Leyva cartel following the death of Arturo, who was known as the "Boss of Bosses," and the arrest of "La Barbie," a former Beltran Leyva hitman and operative.

Poire said the Beltran Leyvas "had constituted one of the groups with the largest presence in the country," conducting operations in 32 Mexican states, including the capital.

But troubles began when Alfredo Beltran Leyva was arrested in 2008. Then the death of his brother Arturo the following year splintered the cartel, launching a brutal war for control of the gang, involving mass executions and beheadings in once-peaceful parts of central Mexico. Carlos Beltran Leyva was arrested a few days after Arturo's death.

The fight for the remains of the cartel pitted Hector Beltran Leyva and Villarreal against a faction led by "La Barbie." Hector is the last Beltran Leyva brother at large.

The Beltran Leyva brothers once formed a part of the Sinaloa cartel, but broke away following a dispute. An indication of the problems they face is that three of the four main blows dealt to drug gangs in the past year involve Beltran Leyva leaders or operatives.

More than 28,000 people have been killed in Mexico since December 2006, when President Felipe Calderon launched a military offensive against the cartels soon after taking office.

Suspected drug hitmen killed 25 people late last week in the U.S.-Mexico border city of Ciudad Juarez in what was the bloodiest day in almost three years for a major manufacturing hub gripped by an escalating drug war.

A separate operation by the federal police in the northern state of Tamaulipas on Saturday led to the discovery of a weapons cache that included dozens of guns and 90 grenades, authorities said on Sunday evening.

In the central state of Morelos, police discovered nine bodies in clandestine graves Saturday in the same area where four more were recently found.

The Public Safety Department said in a separate statement that all 13 victims were believed to have been killed on the orders of "La Barbie" in his battle for control of the cartel.

Filing charges against troops
Also Sunday, the military announced that it filed charges against four troops for the Sept. 5 shooting deaths of a man and his 15-year-old son along the highway linking the northern city of Monterrey to Laredo, Texas.

Authorities have said soldiers opened fire on the family vehicle when it failed to stop at a checkpoint, though relatives who were also in the car say they were shot at after they passed a military convoy.

The mother and wife of the two victims was also wounded in the shooting.

A captain, a corporal and two infantrymen are in custody in military prison and have been charged with homicide, the Defense Department said in a statement.

Mexico's military was already under scrutiny for this year's killings of two brothers, ages 5 and 9, on a highway in Tamaulipas, a state bordering Nuevo Leon.

The National Human Rights Commission has accused soldiers of shooting the children and altering the scene to try to pin the deaths on drug cartel gunmen.

The army denies the allegations and says the boys were killed in the crossfire of a shootout between soldiers and suspected traffickers.

The scandal renewed demands from activists that civilian authorities, not the army, investigate human rights cases involving the military.
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Re: The Drug War

Post by PiEdude on Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:50 am

Well, there you go then, problem solved.

Now let's declare victory and get ou-
Wait.

"Mexican Marines"?

"Mexican Special Forces"?

...

Only thirty of them?

...

Who the hell divided by zero?
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Re: The Drug War

Post by Gauz on Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:36 pm

There's not much you can do. The more you fight it the worse it's going to get. If you do one thing to hinder them they'll get around it, people are crafty.
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Re: The Drug War

Post by squirrelboy on Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:37 pm

Kasrkin Seath wrote:If we nuke it from orbit....

my thoughts exactly. Mexico and the middle east. And all the worlds problems will be gone
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Re: The Drug War

Post by Ruski on Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:42 pm

squirrelboy wrote:
Kasrkin Seath wrote:If we nuke it from orbit....

my thoughts exactly. Mexico and the middle east. And all the worlds problems will be gone

That makes you no better. I would point out that only some are extremists or terrorists in the Middle East, but you may over look that. Mexico has a high level of crime and corruption, but steps are being taken to combat this.

Let's not forget America has extremists too! Ex: The extremist Christian group that was centered in Northwest Ohio and Michigan that planned on killing cops to "spring a nation wide revolution" afterwards.
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Re: The Drug War

Post by CivBase on Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:50 pm

I'm kind of disappointed in the responses I've been seeing. A lot of "just do nothing" or "we're screwed no matter what". I started this thread, so I suppose it's time I chime in.

I propose we re-direct a significant portion of the US's funding on the drug war to weeding out corruption in the Mexican government. The Mexican army is actually very efficient for what it does, it doesn't need much more funding (though I don't see them having much of an influence come WW3). Mexico also needs to focus on its economy. Many Mexican citizens are turning to the drug trade as a means of just getting by. The recession in the US has cost an untold amount of jobs in Mexico (especially factories). Unemployment rates are soaring, and the people need a legitimate way to pay the bills.

While Mexico takes care of corruption and economy, the US needs to help by reinforcing the border and possibly adding a few gun purchasing laws to the border states. As it is, these states tend to be very pro-gun ownership - which I admire - but people shouldn't be able to just go in a buy a gun on the streets. Ninety percent of cartel weapons come from the US, and we need to find a way to stop them from getting more without restricting ownership for US citizens. Detailed background checks and waiting periods sound like a great starting point.

What we CAN'T do is sit back and say it's Mexico's problem. Most of the United State's illegal drug production comes from these cartels, and hard drugs are becoming increasingly prevalent in the US. Besides, if left unchecked, it's only a matter of time before the cartels becomes powerful enough to overthrow the Mexican government and spill into the United States. The violence is already spreading wildly into the border states.

No, the United States shouldn't take this on as another one of our big missions to save the world; BUT, we should take responsibility for our own part and give Mexico a little help when they asked for.

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Re: The Drug War

Post by BBJynne on Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:55 pm

if the cartels take over, that would be an excuse to go fight someone who isn't muslim Very Happy

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Re: The Drug War

Post by CivBase on Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:34 pm

So... that's it? No response?

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Re: The Drug War

Post by PiEdude on Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:47 pm

Yeah, pretty much.

I mean, in all seriousness, what the hell can we do if we can't shoot or bomb something?

We don't have any money.
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