If a tree falls........

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If a tree falls........

Post by Avenged on Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:27 am

If a tree falls in the middle of the woods and no one is there to hear it does it make a sound???

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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by Cheese on Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:50 am

Yesssss!!

This is a stupid riddle. Essentially it boils down to sound being vibration rather than the interpretation.

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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by PiEdude on Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:21 am

More importantly:

If a tree falls in the forest, and it lands on Hillary Clinton, does anyone care?
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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by BBJynne on Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:52 am

That's easy PiE!

No

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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by Rotaretilbo on Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:30 am

If a tree falls on a woman, then what was a tree doing in the kitchen?

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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by RX on Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:53 am

Rotaretilbo wrote:If a tree falls on a woman, then what was a tree doing in the kitchen?
This one is the best so far
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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by KrAzY on Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:30 pm

until it is observed it both does and does not produce a sound
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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by Avenged on Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:31 pm

Cheese wrote:Yesssss!!

This is a stupid riddle. Essentially it boils down to sound being vibration rather than the interpretation.
Tell me cheese how was sound first discovered?

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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by Onyxknight on Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:12 pm

Avenged wrote:
Cheese wrote:Yesssss!!

This is a stupid riddle. Essentially it boils down to sound being vibration rather than the interpretation.
Tell me cheese how was sound first discovered?
with the tree moving the air around it
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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by Avenged on Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:59 pm

Ah I never thought about it that way

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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by Rotaretilbo on Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:31 pm

Theoretically, if the double slit experiment's outcome can be affected by observation, so could a tree falling in a forest.

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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by Cheese on Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:37 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:Theoretically, if the double slit experiment's outcome can be affected by observation, so could a tree falling in a forest.

If the tree is observed then it falls on a cat.

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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by PiEdude on Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:20 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:If a tree falls on a woman, then what was a tree doing in the kitchen?

The funny thing is, I've heard this one before Razz
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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by CivBase on Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:29 pm

KrAzY wrote:until it is observed it both does and does not produce a sound
So... what you're saying is... existence is based on observation? I'm calling bull.

What is sound? MW says sound is a mechanical radiant energy that is transmitted by longitudinal pressure waves in a material medium (as air) and is the objective cause of hearing. For those of us who didn't major in overly-complicated English terms, sound is more simply defined as waves of vibrations. These waves travel outward from their source and, when picked up by humans, vibrate the various structures inside the ear. The brain interprets these vibrations as what we hear.

Audible actions are not part of some new dimension. The vibration is a physical effect that can be observed not only through hearing, but also by sight; this is especially easy with modern stereo systems. Whether it is observed or not, it occurs just the same as a ball rolling across my kitchen floor or an avalanche somewhere in Canada.

It makes a sound and I'd LOVE to have a serious discussion with whoever is telling everyone otherwise.

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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:31 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:Theoretically, if the double slit experiment's outcome can be affected by observation, so could a tree falling in a forest.
'Fraid not, Rot. You're confusing Classic and Quantum Physics.
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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by Gold Spartan on Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:16 pm

but how do you know the tree has fallen if no one is around to observe or hear that the tree either fell or is falling?
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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by KrAzY on Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:19 pm

actually I was referencing the schrodinger's cat paradox
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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by Avenged on Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:38 pm

Sound only exists because of ones ability to perseve it so without anyone there to perseve it it makes no sound.

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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by Angatar on Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:15 pm

Avenged wrote:Sound only exists because of ones ability to perseve it so without anyone there to perseve it it makes no sound.
Falling=vibrations
vibrations=sound

Just because you didn't hear it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by Ukurse on Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:46 pm

Avenged wrote:Sound only exists because of ones ability to perseve it so without anyone there to perseve it it makes no sound.
As Angata said above, sound is not a perception, hearing something is a perception. Sound is just vibration in the air, or what ever you are surrounded by (Like if you are underwater, then sound is vibration in the water.) You can't physically touch sound, as it isn't an object, but it still exists.
This was asked in my Psychology class a few weeks ago (Even though it don't have much to do with psychology)
I was surprised how I was the only one who realized this, but I think there is more to the question than strictly physics.



PiEdude wrote:
Rotaretilbo wrote:If a tree falls on a woman, then what was a tree doing in the kitchen?

The funny thing is, I've heard this one before Razz
Same here.
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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by Rotaretilbo on Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:59 am

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:'Fraid not, Rot. You're confusing Classic and Quantum Physics.

The fact that mere observation can affect the outcome of something in quantum physics gives substance to the theoretical possibility that it could also be applied to classical physics. I'm not saying the tree doesn't make a sound, but it might not, because if we are not their to observe it, we cannot know for certain.

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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by Toaster on Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:44 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:
Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:'Fraid not, Rot. You're confusing Classic and Quantum Physics.

The fact that mere observation can affect the outcome of something in quantum physics gives substance to the theoretical possibility that it could also be applied to classical physics. I'm not saying the tree doesn't make a sound, but it might not, because if we are not their to observe it, we cannot know for certain.

Something which can be proven by mathematics need not be observed empirically.

Anyway, the question is all about semantics, not science. Its answer depends entirely on one's definition of "sound." If you define the term as "The sensation experienced upon perceiving vibrations in the air," then the tree does not make a sound, as "sound" would be defined as the "sensation" associated with pressure waves, as opposed to the waves themselves.

If, however, you define sound as, quite simply, "vibrations in the air which organs of hearing would theoretically be capable of perceiving," then the tree does, in fact, make a sound.
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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by Rotaretilbo on Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:03 pm

I always thought the purpose of the question was philisophical in nature, forcing us to more deeply question whether or not what we perceive is necessarily the same as what is True. The fact that, in the multiverse, there is an example in which observation of something affects the outcome calls into question the very nature of what we consider to be fact.

And I'd note that, mathematically, we can prove every possibility of the double slit as being the correct one, so math doesn't necessarily have final say.

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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by Maeve on Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:30 pm

Avenged wrote:If a tree falls in the middle of the woods and no one is there to hear it does it make a sound???
Yes

Now, the real question is, If a tree falls on a women, What's a tree doing in the kitchen? Razz
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Re: If a tree falls........

Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:51 pm

Think yer sig is a li'l big there.
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Re: If a tree falls........

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