Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

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Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by KristallNacht on Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:24 am

http://http://blogs.howstuffworks.com/2011/03/25/cnn-oddly-celebrates-hero-libyan-suicide-bomber/

Apparently when suicide bombers attack our enemies they're heroes, but they attack us and must be completely evil.

I also like how they call it the 'War for Libya" instead of the 'War on Libya"
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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by Vigil on Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:47 am

You expect the media to be balanced and rational?

Of course they flip on a dime, and they'll constantly contradict themselves just to get a story.

Suicide bombers are a lot like the kamakzi pilots of World War 2. Willing to sacrfice themselves due to their beliefs that they are doing to honourable thing in as desperate attempt to intimidate and weaken their enemy.

Al Quededa use it to spread terror, and to attack key symbols of western interest. The Libyans are using it mainly out of desperation, as they are a rag tag group of partially trained servicemen and normal people formed into a pseudo milita against a group of specialist forces with artillery and superior training.

The situations are somewhat similar, but the motive behind them is different.

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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by KristallNacht on Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:10 am

Vigil wrote:The Libyans are using it mainly out of desperation, as they are a rag tag group of partially trained servicemen and normal people formed into a pseudo milita against a group of specialist forces with artillery and superior training.

replace 'Libyans' with 'Taliban' or 'Insurgents'.
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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by Vigil on Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:34 am

KristallNacht wrote:
Vigil wrote:The Libyans are using it mainly out of desperation, as they are a rag tag group of partially trained servicemen and normal people formed into a pseudo milita against a group of specialist forces with artillery and superior training.

replace 'Libyans' with 'Taliban' or 'Insurgents'.

Nice to know you have a balanced a well thought out opinion on the libyian rebels.

I do agree they are like the Taliban: Circa 1979-1989. As they were under attack from a larger and ethically questionable force, and they were supported by the west. Nowdays there just fighting the US due to the influence of their leaders.

Now given the fact that the Libyian rebels, oh I don't know...ASKED THE WESTERN WORLD FOR HELP, I don't think there going to do a 180 and attack the very people who just pulled their asses out of the fire. (Especially given the fact we realise that invading the country for regime change is a very bad idea given Iraq and afganistan.)

And of course they're insurgents. What kinda of statement is that? Do you even know what that word means?

insurgent - guerrilla: a member of an irregular armed force that fights a stronger force by sabotage and harassment
insurgent - in opposition to a civil authority or government


The difference is, the world recognises that the regime/government is in wrong and are supporting the insurgency, whereas, the Talibian are trying to regain their lost territory to begin a regime change back to when they were in control, which wasn't that much better than Gaddafi's regime, which is why there being damned by the international community.


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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by Rotaretilbo on Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:23 am

The link isn't working for me, and I am too lazy right now to look it up.

Was the suicide bomber wearing a uniform of some kind, marking him as a rebel soldier?

Was the target of the bombing primarily military?

If a US soldier blows himself up as his position is being overrun by Germans to give his comrades time to escape, is he a terrorist, in your opinion, NT?

I ask because I don't know the situation. I really hope the answers are no. I'd hate to have to defend CNN...

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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by KristallNacht on Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:25 pm

He had no uniform.

he packed explosives into his car, prayed and drove it into a military barracks.
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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by TNine on Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:04 pm

If its any consolation, it was a military target in the middle of a war.

...

Actually, if you think about it, it isn't terrorism?!?! Terrorism is psychological warfare. This is just...warfare. Still a weird flip flop, though.
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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by KristallNacht on Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:29 pm

but the muj and taliban in iraq and afghanistan aren't using psi-ops either. they're just waging war.

we demonize our enemies for using such underhanded tactics at the same time as we support our allies using the same tactics, but treat them as heroes.
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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by Angatar on Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:32 pm

From what I understand, this guy gave his life to open a barracks up to attack, and terrorists in Irag and Afgahnistan give their lives to blow up civillians. That's a big difference.

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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by Onyxknight on Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:45 pm

I don't see the problem. They're trying to stop an egotistical maniac from committing genocide amongst their people. and only military targets were hit, taliban and other organizations attacked civilians.
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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by Ruski on Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:46 pm

KristallNacht wrote:but the muj and taliban in iraq and afghanistan aren't using psi-ops either. they're just waging war.

we demonize our enemies for using such underhanded tactics at the same time as we support our allies using the same tactics, but treat them as heroes.

Might not want to use the nickname "Muj" or its variants....defeats your point.
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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by KristallNacht on Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:22 am

muj is actually just a shortening.

and they don't attack civilians anyway. They attack military forces.

when was the last time you heard of an IED or any similar thing killing civilians in iraq or afghanistan?
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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by Angatar on Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:14 am

21,000 dead civillians.

How many US soldiers have died? Four or five thousand?

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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by KristallNacht on Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:28 am

I would think that number is inflated for PR purposes.

and just because they ARE getting killed by them, doesn't mean they are the target.
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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by TNine on Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:24 am

KristallNacht wrote:I would think that number is inflated for PR purposes.

and just because they ARE getting killed by them, doesn't mean they are the target.
But civilians are getting hit hard. Also, the Taliban will go after other non-military figures, like buildings, embassies, monuments, etc.
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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by Ruski on Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:03 pm

KristallNacht wrote:muj is actually just a shortening

My point is that you call them that, when Mujihadeen stands for "Strugglers", a type of hero in the Islamic culture.

I don't think you should continue calling them that anymore, especially since many troops in Afghanistan have been told to stop calling them it.
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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by KristallNacht on Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:20 pm

stop calling them mujihadeen?

um...no

its the term used to reference foreign fighters in the country. Those that entered the country to wage 'holy war' on the coalition.
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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by Ruski on Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:42 pm

KristallNacht wrote:stop calling them mujihadeen?

um...no

its the term used to reference foreign fighters in the country. Those that entered the country to wage 'holy war' on the coalition.

Actually, you not being stationed in the Middle East, and me, who talked to a Marine Major this past Monday and he, who is charge of a large number amount of operations under his commanders in the Helmand Province, was told by his commanders to tell his men to stop calling them Mujihadeen for the reason I pointed out.
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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by CivBase on Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:49 pm

It was a battle, not an attack on a civilian population. As scary as Japanese kamikazes were, they were not evil because they were willing to sacrifice their lives.

Middle-Eastern suicide bombers aren't bad because they commit suicide to kill other people or because they pray. They're bad because they target civilians.

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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by Vigil on Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:31 pm

Pretty much what I said in the first post, I just used examples of where it has been used before, and not be branded evil.

The Talibian use it on civilian heavily populated zones to cause the most harm possible, by killing as many innocent bystanders to weaken their morale and incite fear so they feel vulnerable, even with the Allied forces protecting them.

The Libyians used it on a military target to open it up to an attack, in a war where they have always been a disadvantage, to give them a chance of pushing Gaddafi forces back.

Same method, two completely different reasons why there done.

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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by Rotaretilbo on Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:59 pm

He should have worn a uniform, but otherwise, this was hardly a terrorist attack. I don't agree with his method, but it is certainly not on the same level as terrorists or other insurgent forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Even IEDs that are technically meant for military targets are placed in the open road where civilians congregate. They are used because of the psychological effect that these bombs have, not because they are particularly effective.

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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by KristallNacht on Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:12 pm

Ruski wrote:

Actually, you not being stationed in the Middle East, and me, who talked to a Marine Major this past Monday and he, who is charge of a large number amount of operations under his commanders in the Helmand Province, was told by his commanders to tell his men to stop calling them Mujihadeen for the reason I pointed out.

your point still doesn't really make any sense.

and Officers and Enlisted are in different territory when it comes to that kind of thing. Officially, they won't be referred to that anymore, if they ever were. but unofficially, we'll stick with an identifiable name. without a name, they're just 'middle-easterners' or 'iraqis' or 'afghanis' giving them a name like 'muj' helps keep their identity seperate from civilians, reducing the likelihood of coalition forces killing innocents.
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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by Toaster on Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:01 pm

KristallNacht wrote:muj is actually just a shortening.

and they don't attack civilians anyway. They attack military forces.

when was the last time you heard of an IED or any similar thing killing civilians in iraq or afghanistan?

I wouldn't call an IED attack "terrorism" either. Terrorism is killing innocent people for the specific purpose of creating fear, in order to influence public opinion and public policy. Planting dirty bombs is unethical, but it isn't terrorism. Using flame throwers to burn your enemy alive, and scare the shit out of them, is a form of psychological warfare, but it still isn't terrorism, given that it is meant to influence military action specifically...

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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by Rotaretilbo on Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:09 am

IEDs are used just as much to create fear in the local civilian populace supporting us and our civilians back home as it is to inspire fear in soldiers. Perhaps even more so.

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Re: Libyan Suicide Bomber!! Hero?

Post by Nocbl2 on Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:14 pm

I think he is a 'hero' because the motives behind the attack were different than, say, Al-Qaeda.
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