Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by Rotaretilbo on Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:51 am

I dunno, P. I don't think anyone at 343 has actually read Ghosts of Onyx.

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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by TNine on Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:45 pm

Lord Pheonix wrote:Chances are John is going to find the other Spartans on the shield world.



Chances of logically drifting towards that one planet randomly?



Lord Pheonix damn impossible.


Chances of it happening in this game?


Rather high
Meh: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheoryOfNarrativeCausality
Stories sometimes require improbable things, and a good story even more so. The unlikelihood of something happening should not honestly be used against a series unless it is used far too often.

However, if 343 thinks a Dyson Sphere is just like a planet, except inverted, i'm going to cry.
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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by A_Bearded_Swede on Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:17 pm

KrAzY wrote:
Angatar wrote:I got this and it's great. It's probably just me, but the game seems more challenging when in the new graphics mode. This really gaveme faith in 343i to make Halo 4 awesome. They really put a lot of effort in this remake, I can't wait to see what they do with Halo 4.


.... except they didn't do anything gameplay wise... they just made something that worked well look nice...


thats like bringing your car to an auto detailer and asking them to build a new engine for the car...... sure, they might be able to do it correctly, but just because they did the detailing well shouldn't give you faith that the engine they build for you wont explode

But, they said they were bringing back Halo CE and just making it have better graphics....which they did.

Not revamp the whole thing like your saying...

Therefore Halo Anniversary succeeded what it set itself out to do.

....so i dont understand the whole car metaphor...

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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by dragoon9105 on Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:50 pm

The car metaphor implies that just because someone knows how to repaint your car, doesn't mean they know how to fix your engine as well. but unlike in real life you can't check 343's credentials beforehand.

So in other words its a justification so people can still say halo 4 will suck until it actually does or doesn't (and if it doesn't people will still say it does).
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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by A_Bearded_Swede on Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:41 pm

=/
then the metaphor is worded wrong.
he says that youre asking the dealer to redo the engine and the outcome is not what you wanted....

but Anniversary is exactly what was asked...
thats the part i dont understand....

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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:31 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:Bungie made it absolutely clear that they were not going to revisit John-117 in any further story arcs, and tried to make it as illogical as possible to pursue the character further without outright killing him off or remaking Marathon. 343 Studios is going against that desire, and just because they can apply graphics updates to a game does not mean that they can make a whole new one, especially when the original people tried to sabotage the concept.
Doyle's First Law of Franchises:
If you want to make sure a franchise will no longer follow a character, kill him off for real.
If you want to make ABSOLUTELY sure a franchise will no longer follow a character, have someone find the body and confirm he's dead.

Sorry, Rot, but with all the respect I have for you, the legendary ending showed John and Cortana drifting toward an unknown Forerunner planet. That's not everything short of killing off a character, that's everything short of "To Be Continued".

And yes, 343i knows of Ghosts of Onyx. Glasslands might not have been perfect (In fact, it was downright disappointing in some respects) but at least it dealt with the effects of Onyx.
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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by Rotaretilbo on Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:39 pm

It's pretty clear cut.

You go to a dealer and ask them to touch up the paint job on your car. They do a good job. Do you now assume that, because the dealership knows how to paint, they can also rebuild your engine? No. Because their ability to paint and their ability to build engines are unrelated. They may be able to rebuild your engine, but they may not. The fact that they can paint does not evidence whether or not they can build an engine.

All 343 did with Anniversary is apply an old game to a new engine. To say that "they did good with Anniversary, therefore they will do good with Halo 4" is fallacious. Now, on the flip side, we have seen what they've done when they had to come up with the story themselves. I don't think I need to remind anyone of the travesty that was Halo Legends.

And there are limits to the Theory of Narrative Causality. It may be present in all fiction, but when it is overused, it ruins the story. A good story is one that isn't so predictable that it's boring.

They couldn't kill him off, though, if they wanted to preserve the whole Marathon link. They should have just made it more clear cut, imo.

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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by CivBase on Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:47 pm

The sad thing is I don't think ANY of the fans wanted a new Halo about MC. There are so many other places to pick up on.

Halo 3 left me with a satisfying ending. It more-or-less wrapped everything up and left a little hint at the end that MC's journey wasn't over. It didn't kill off MC but it didn't leave a cliffhanger, so I feel a new game from MC's perspective is very narrow-sighted. A book or comic would be okay... or a game from a different perspective that hinted at what was happening to MC... but not another MC-themed shooter.

Halo 4 could still turn out well, but it's going to have to prove itself before I get excited about it. For me, the lack of failure in Anniversary is comforting but not necessarily indicative of Halo 4's production.




...I need to teach myself to make more sentences without a 'but' half way through.


Last edited by CivBase on Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:50 pm

As for you, CivBase, I would have been fine with another MC-based FPS. I'd just want 343i to wait another couple of years.
Don't assume that most fans wouldn't want to revisit the MC. At least spend a few months over at HBO before making assumptions.

Rotaretilbo wrote:It's pretty clear cut.

You go to a dealer and ask them to touch up the paint job on your car. They do a good job. Do you now assume that, because the dealership knows how to paint, they can also rebuild your engine? No. Because their ability to paint and their ability to build engines are unrelated. They may be able to rebuild your engine, but they may not. The fact that they can paint does not evidence whether or not they can build an engine.
All 343 did with Anniversary is apply an old game to a new engine. To say that "they did good with Anniversary, therefore they will do good with Halo 4" is fallacious. Now, on the flip side, we have seen what they've done when they had to come up with the story themselves. I don't think I need to remind anyone of the travesty that was Halo Legends.
Or Apt 117. But hey, at least they listened to the fans with that one.

But remember, they also released Evolutions, Cryptum, and the Visual Guide.

I don't think 343i will do well with Halo 4 because they did a decent job on the terminals of Halo: CEA. They're still on probation as far as I'm concerned, but I'm not going to write off Halo 4 before we've even seen gameplay or story teasers.

Rotaretilbo wrote:And there are limits to the Theory of Narrative Causality. It may be present in all fiction, but when it is overused, it ruins the story. A good story is one that isn't so predictable that it's boring.
So, when has Halo been so predictable, it's boring?

The Master Chief and Cortana are drifting toward a moon-sized construct (That isn't the Onyx Shield Facility). That's not too surprising; they were last in the vicinity of the Ark, which was the centerpoint of the Forerunner plan to survive the Flood. It's bound to have defensive installations around it, and the rear half of the Forward Unto Dawn is drifting toward it.

It's a logical progression from the events of Halo 3, and we don't know enough about the story to say that it's going to be any more awful than Halo 2.

Rotaretilbo wrote:They couldn't kill him off, though, if they wanted to preserve the whole Marathon link. They should have just made it more clear cut, imo.
Marathon link? What Marathon link? You mean you think that Master Chief is the Protagonist in Marathon.
=/
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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by dragoon9105 on Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:44 pm

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:
Rotaretilbo wrote:They couldn't kill him off, though, if they wanted to preserve the whole Marathon link. They should have just made it more clear cut, imo.
Marathon link? What Marathon link? You mean you think that Master Chief is the Protagonist in Marathon.
=/

Bah people have been saying it since the end of H3 that the chief is the main character in Marathon, and that's only because bungie likes referencing previous games in newer titles. Example being the Marathon symbol is everywhere in the halo franchise. Doesn't mean the stories are linked at all.
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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by Nocbl2 on Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:32 pm

Lord Pheonix wrote:Chances are John is going to find the other Spartans on the shield world.



Chances of logically drifting towards that one planet randomly?



Lord Pheonix damn impossible.


Chances of it happening in this game?


Rather high
Trying not to spoil Glasslands too much, but...

The other Spartans get out w/o John's help.
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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by BBJynne on Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:04 am

Marathon link doesn't work because Marathon happened before Halo in timeline, so they obviously can't be same universe.
Not to mention the lack of any covenant or forerunners in Marathon, and Phfor, S'pht, and Jjario in Halo, along with different human gov'ts and tech levels (humans don't have FTL in Marathon, iirc)

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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by Rotaretilbo on Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:11 am

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:So, when has Halo been so predictable, it's boring?

The Master Chief and Cortana are drifting toward a moon-sized construct (That isn't the Onyx Shield Facility). That's not too surprising; they were last in the vicinity of the Ark, which was the centerpoint of the Forerunner plan to survive the Flood. It's bound to have defensive installations around it, and the rear half of the Forward Unto Dawn is drifting toward it.

It's a logical progression from the events of Halo 3, and we don't know enough about the story to say that it's going to be any more awful than Halo 2.

That remark was in reference to the concept that the MC and Cortana happened to come out and be drifting towards Onyx, which drag said would be justified under Theory of Narrative Causality.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:Marathon link? What Marathon link? You mean you think that Master Chief is the Protagonist in Marathon.
=/

There's a few lines in the manual text for Marathon which details the events immediately preceding the game that I find rather interesting.

Marathon Manual wrote:With apprehension, the same apprehension you felt three hundred and twenty-two years earlier, you envision Marcus Tiberius Buendia, one of Sol's greatest leaders.

Marathon Manual wrote:It's funny, but you've always been the colony's trouble shooter. You're bigger and stronger, and a better shot. In games, you always scored the most points and looked the hero.

Marathon Manual wrote:You can almost imagine the face of a wicked computer with its eyes wide and its lips folding out in a grotesque smile. A smile which reminds you of something from your past, but you can't remember exactly what it is.

Marathon Manual wrote:Oddly , this is familiar to you, as if it were from an old dream, but you can't exactly remember...

In Marathon, you're a cyborg super-soldier in green armor who is apparently hundreds of years old who has a faint memory of crashing into a ship and engaging in close combat with an alien race, as well as with rampant AI. I don't feel it's a stretch that to say that John-117 may be the protagonist in the Marathon series. In fact, a Bungie employee stated as much, though later retracted it when Bungie denied that it was true.

BBJynne wrote:Marathon link doesn't work because Marathon happened before Halo in timeline, so they obviously can't be same universe.

Marathon takes place nearly 250 years after the events in the Halo games.

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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by CivBase on Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:12 am

Actualy... Marathon took place roughly 250 years after Halo 3 >.>


DANG YOU ROT!!!!

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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by CivBase on Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:14 am

Double Post

What if Bungie's 'new IP' is actually a reconstructed Marathon? It would have to undergo a lot of changes, but it sure would be interesting. Although... now that I think about it, a game like that probably wouldn't receive a lot of praise on today's market unless Bungie really bumped it up.

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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by BBJynne on Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:22 am

So I got the time wrong, but that makes the stuff about tech regression even more valid, and everything else just as much, along with bungie pretty much saying there's no marathon link, and it's just references for fans.

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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:51 am

Rotaretilbo wrote:That remark was in reference to the concept that the MC and Cortana happened to come out and be drifting towards Onyx, which drag said would be justified under Theory of Narrative Causality.
Fair enough.

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:There's a few lines in the manual text for Marathon which details the events immediately preceding the game that I find rather interesting.

Marathon Manual wrote:With apprehension, the same apprehension you felt three hundred and twenty-two years earlier, you envision Marcus Tiberius Buendia, one of Sol's greatest leaders.

Marathon Manual wrote:It's funny, but you've always been the colony's trouble shooter. You're bigger and stronger, and a better shot. In games, you always scored the most points and looked the hero.

Marathon Manual wrote:You can almost imagine the face of a wicked computer with its eyes wide and its lips folding out in a grotesque smile. A smile which reminds you of something from your past, but you can't remember exactly what it is.

Marathon Manual wrote:Oddly , this is familiar to you, as if it were from an old dream, but you can't exactly remember...

In Marathon, you're a cyborg super-soldier in green armor who is apparently hundreds of years old who has a faint memory of crashing into a ship and engaging in close combat with an alien race, as well as with rampant AI. I don't feel it's a stretch that to say that John-117 may be the protagonist in the Marathon series. In fact, a Bungie employee stated as much, though later retracted it when Bungie denied that it was true.
Yeah, while I can understand that two universes by the same creator would be similar and maybe even reference each other, I can't see Halo and Marathon as linked, from what I know. If Bungie said it wasn't so, I'm with them.

Wonder what they'll do with Destiny, now that the slate has been wiped clean.
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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by dragoon9105 on Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:10 am

Well Hard Reset got a pretty decent reception, If Bungie was to make an Older FPS style game it should do decently well even more so considering its bungie.
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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by KristallNacht on Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:09 am

I think its more about the mystery of a potential link. Killing the MC off would get rid of all that mystery immediately.
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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by Rotaretilbo on Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:17 am

BBJynne wrote:So I got the time wrong, but that makes the stuff about tech regression even more valid, and everything else just as much, along with bungie pretty much saying there's no marathon link, and it's just references for fans.

From what I can tell, in a lot of regards, the humans in Marathon are more technically advanced. Not as far ahead as I'd expect them to be after 250 years, but given that they were driven to the brink of extinction...

Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:Yeah, while I can understand that two universes by the same creator would be similar and maybe even reference each other, I can't see Halo and Marathon as linked, from what I know. If Bungie said it wasn't so, I'm with them.

Does anyone else remember all the lies about what Halo 3 was going to concern? Bungie consistently denies the truth in order to preserve the surprise.

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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by Divine Virus on Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:45 am

Holy shit, there's was a tiny war in here and I missed it. Razz
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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by Lord Pheonix on Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:41 am

Don't have Wars on this site, fire fights sometimes.


Skirmishes at the highest level.



Usually just someone taking pot shots at someone else though.

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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by Nocbl2 on Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:01 am

Bungie doesn't own Marathon or Halo, so...

yeahno
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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by Rasq'uire'laskar on Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:50 pm

Rotaretilbo wrote:
BBJynne wrote:So I got the time wrong, but that makes the stuff about tech regression even more valid, and everything else just as much, along with bungie pretty much saying there's no marathon link, and it's just references for fans.

From what I can tell, in a lot of regards, the humans in Marathon are more technically advanced. Not as far ahead as I'd expect them to be after 250 years, but given that they were driven to the brink of extinction...
Does that include a loss of FTL?

Rotaretilbo wrote:
Rasq'uire'laskar wrote:Yeah, while I can understand that two universes by the same creator would be similar and maybe even reference each other, I can't see Halo and Marathon as linked, from what I know. If Bungie said it wasn't so, I'm with them.

Does anyone else remember all the lies about what Halo 3 was going to concern? Bungie consistently denies the truth in order to preserve the surprise.
No, I don't. Could you enlighten me?
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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

Post by Divine Virus on Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:56 pm

Nah I can remember at least one war LP. But your right, mostly battles.
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Re: Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary

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