Presidential Race

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Which of the two candidates do you favor (or hate least)?

48% 48% 
[ 11 ]
17% 17% 
[ 4 ]
35% 35% 
[ 8 ]
 
Total Votes : 23

Re: Presidential Race

Post by Gauz on Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:14 am

I like KrAzY's choice the most. I can identify with his policies the best, too bad he's not popular enough...

I really don't think Romney is going to win though. Did anyone else hear about his 47% spiel?

Also, he can't seem to make up his mind about a lot of topics. He keeps switching his views and positions on topics.

But seriously, if it was possible



Just make 2008 into 2012 Razz
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Re: Presidential Race

Post by Nocbl2 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:16 am

Tylertlat wrote:I'm hearing a lot of un-cited claims in this thread.
Yeah.

Hold on, I'll be back.

Get
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Re: Presidential Race

Post by KristallNacht on Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:57 am

I'm personally jsut sick of how there is more shit talking to both sides then actual discussion of the issues.

It's all like "The communist party supports Obama!!!!" "Oh, well, romney is a rich guy that only cares about rich guys!!!"
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Re: Presidential Race

Post by Lord Pheonix on Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:07 am

Rich guy who only cares about the Rich is a legitimate concern when he has the power to fuck over the entire country to help out himself.

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Re: Presidential Race

Post by KristallNacht on Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:13 am

I would say its more important still to talk about the issues. But I'm sure both sides have shit for plans, so they'd have nothing to talk about.
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Re: Presidential Race

Post by KrAzY on Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:18 am

also, pheonix, if you are looking for rich guys who actually have the power to make themself more rich, you should look at congress, not president... the present is the leader of the executive branch, not the legislative branch
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Re: Presidential Race

Post by A_Bearded_Swede on Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:23 am

nobody wants to comment on my post. ='(

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Re: Presidential Race

Post by Kasrkin Seath on Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:34 am

Spekwyse wrote:nobody wants to comment on my post. ='(
It's hard to reply to something like that when you agree with it Razz

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Re: Presidential Race

Post by Tylertlat on Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:15 am

Efi


Last edited by Tylertlat on Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:19 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : efi)
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Re: Presidential Race

Post by dragoon9105 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:30 am

If Romney shut up about all the Social issues that shouldn't be touched like Gay Marriage Abortion ect He probably would win the Election. But saying your against abortion is political suicide, I think he forgot Women have the right to vote.

Also his little Freakout in one of those interviews, The one with the Gay WW2 vet i think it was, certainty counted against him, he looked like he wanted to jump into an acid bath. Generally you want a strong president not someone who is going to jump out of their skin if a Diplomat is gay because they are homophobic.

Obama has the Right stance on Social Issues and has the whole Robot thing going for him but the fact is he didn't instantly make everything better in his first two years in office counts against him somehow.

Fixing the Economy requires a Cause and effect/Trial and Error process where leadership tries different things and see if they help or hurt, Computer models still cant accurately predict people so anyone who tells you an Economic plan is going to work 100% is wrong.

And Rich people have no Excuse, 30% of their pay is more than some of their employees combined make in a year, or you know all their Chinese employees combined make in forever.

And then nobody seems to be recommending this idea for the Poor, Emulate the Great Depression, dont give Handouts, Give Jobs. You have an unemployed work force just laying about, BUILD SHIT. There's tons of Roads and Dams that Army Core of Engineers cant keep up with. Bridges need to be repaired. Lord Pheonix knows Louisiana and the Gulf could still use people to help rebuild from the Hurricane Season. As Lewis black would say, Build a Big fucking thing out in the middle of Kansas, People will want to see the Big fucking thing so tourism sprouts up, Then people start to live there so you need to build houses and those people need restaurants.. see where this is going.

Of the top of my head, As i said the Dams and Roadways could use some work
Build more Powerplants Mainly solar and Wind, This will make power cheaper thus people have more money (Mainly the middle class)
Rebuild Build a Giant Wall along the Border, Of Canada
Build more Electric and Bullet trains around the Country, Lessen our reliance of Air Travel and Sea Cargo Transport
That's an Economic Plan i can get behind, not "Damn Democrats" "Backwards Republicans!"
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Re: Presidential Race

Post by CivBase on Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:13 am

Racism is not decided by someone's race, gender, wealth, or religion. All of the claims about him be racist are baseless stabs at a guy with a different political opinion.

I don't think Romney's stance on abortion is going to hurt him. The stance of the Republic party will have already warded off most proponents of abortion. However, his stance could bring in a fair number of pro-life activists who were in middle ground or otherwise leaning towards Obama.

Obama says Romney is going to replace medicare with a voucher system. The truth: Romney wants to add a voucher system to the current medicare system (which will remain as is) so people can choose to use a privately provided plan instead. Meanwhile, Obama is cutting medicare funding.

I have yet to see any legitimate plans from Romney to cut taxes for the rich. Like I said before, he has proposed several ideas to simplify the tax base and prevent tax evasion/exemption for the upper class. Otherwise, he said multiple times in last night's debate that he didn't want to change the current revenue distribution.

I also see nothing wrong with Ryan's comments about welfare. He didn't say that the poor were poor by choice; all he did was echo a concern which even democrats admit is a problem: far too many of the people who receive welfare are abusing the system. Its a huge money hole that weakens our economy and our government. I don't know how accurate his 30% claim is, but I certainly wouldn't find that figure to be surprising.

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Re: Presidential Race

Post by dragoon9105 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:24 am

Saying your cutting Everyones Taxes means its a tax cut for the Rich, even 1% off the rich is much more money lost than if the Poor and middle class were cut.

And no, Romney's stance is Medicare is going to collapse so hes replacing it with a Voucher system, If he simply Added a voucher system yet keep medicare in place nobody would use the retarded voucher system and it would still fail.

And no Abortion is suicide to Touch, Gay Marriage fine but any self respecting woman shouldn't vote for Romney as he is blatantly saying he is taking away their rights. And heres the Ticket Romney nor Obama can actually do anything with Abortion, Its a Right as said by the Supreme Court all they could do is have the supreme court look up another Abortion case to review which they will promptly shoot down with "We already looked it over" In fact Romney would be smart not to even try as when you give the Supreme court to review anything they may turn around and say Abortion doesn't need to be restricted the same way Obama doesn't try to remove the restrictions on it and accidentally have it banned again. The buggers have done it before, They are in for life unlike some annoying windbag that's only in for four years thus dont have to worry about getting re-elected, they can do anything they want.
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Re: Presidential Race

Post by CivBase on Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:35 pm

dragoon9105 wrote:Saying your cutting Everyones Taxes means its a tax cut for the Rich, even 1% off the rich is much more money lost than if the Poor and middle class were cut.
The only thing I've heard of Romney 'cutting' taxes is how he wants to keep the tax cuts which are already in place.

dragoon9105 wrote:And no, Romney's stance is Medicare is going to collapse so hes replacing it with a Voucher system, If he simply Added a voucher system yet keep medicare in place nobody would use the retarded voucher system and it would still fail.
He just said this all last night in the debate. He wants to add an option, not change the system. His opponents have popularized the idea of replacing medicare altogether, but it's a lie. Sadly, I've heard more lies from both sides than I have truths.

Since the candidates themselves explained their positions just last night, though, I am going to assume that those platforms are - for the most part - accurate and up-to-date.

dragoon9105 wrote:And no Abortion is suicide to Touch, Gay Marriage fine but any self respecting woman shouldn't vote for Romney as he is blatantly saying he is taking away their rights.
I'd very much disagree, as would most women I know. Many women do not consider the choice of life or death for what they view as a living child to be their right.

dragoon9105 wrote:And heres the Ticket Romney nor Obama can actually do anything with Abortion, Its a Right as said by the Supreme Court all they could do is have the supreme court look up another Abortion case to review which they will promptly shoot down with "We already looked it over" In fact Romney would be smart not to even try as when you give the Supreme court to review anything they may turn around and say Abortion doesn't need to be restricted the same way Obama doesn't try to remove the restrictions on it and accidentally have it banned again. The buggers have done it before, They are in for life unlike some annoying windbag that's only in for four years thus dont have to worry about getting re-elected, they can do anything they want.
Ah, but there is one thing he can do: appoint justices for the supreme court. If a new one is needed, the President's opinion on the matter will have significant effect.

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Re: Presidential Race

Post by Elabajaba on Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:36 pm


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Re: Presidential Race

Post by Vigil on Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:43 pm

So as an outsider I have to ask this.

Why on earth does anybody want Romney to be president? I knew Obama's popularity has fallen but damn.

Romney wants to have roll down windows in aeroplanes to stop fires because he has no idea how air pressure works. A guy who doesn't give a fuck about 47% of Americans because they don't pay taxes?

This guy has the potential to be another 4 years of Bush era goofs on the world stage. Obama despite all his faults is articulate and well-read and has a pretty good foreign record in office.

Romney may have 'won' this debate, but do you seriously think he's a viable candidate? Am I missing something here?

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Re: Presidential Race

Post by Lord Pheonix on Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:00 pm

Not really missing anything no.


Republicans just want to have a Republican in office. Cause it went so well last time.

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Re: Presidential Race

Post by Elabajaba on Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:02 pm

Vigil wrote:So as an outsider I have to ask this.

Why on earth does anybody want Romney to be president? I knew Obama's popularity has fallen but damn.

Romney wants to have roll down windows in aeroplanes to stop fires because he has no idea how air pressure works. A guy who doesn't give a fuck about 47% of Americans because they don't pay taxes?

This guy has the potential to be another 4 years of Bush era goofs on the world stage. Obama despite all his faults is articulate and well-read and has a pretty good foreign record in office.

Romney may have 'won' this debate, but do you seriously think he's a viable candidate? Am I missing something here?

Because there are still people in America who want to force their views on others by banning things such as abortion because they believe that a woman's body can detect if it was raped, and can stop a pregnancy, and that abortion doctors are "terrorists" that routinely perform abortions on women who aren't pregnant, and that a pregnancy caused by rape is similar to having a baby out of wedlock.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Akin_'legitimate_rape'_and_pregnancy_comment_controversy
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/03/todd-akin-stands-by-abortion-comments
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/27/tom-smith-rape_n_1834234.html

Tl;dr: Lots of dumb people in the United States.

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Re: Presidential Race

Post by dragoon9105 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:06 pm

Americans are Fickle, We want something and we want it instantly. We elected Obama he didn't change enough for our likeing so now were going to Vote Romney and then Complain when he doesn't do anything (Even though the Senate is more than likely is going to stay locked up thus preventing either candidate from doing anything)

The better choice is Obama if only because this is his second term thus doesn't have to worry about looking good, He can set out to finish what he started in his first two years. Romney is just going to cater to everyone who got him in office, then spend the rest of his presidency shooting down anyone the democrats try to Elect in because the republican party hates to lose or in both parties case, Compromise.
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Re: Presidential Race

Post by Lord Pheonix on Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:08 pm

Republicans believe that the constitution allows an American freedom and the pursuit of happiness.





Except if you are gay.


Then fuck you faggy.

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Re: Presidential Race

Post by Rotaretilbo on Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:21 pm

I only have time to make a quick post, so I'm only replying to Bacon's earlier post. More to come later.

Spekwyse wrote:How about making medicare a voucher program so my grandpa cant afford medicine cause he's at the mercy of insurance companies? Smart move, gonna vote for him, amirite?
source: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/oct/03/barack-obama/obama-says-romney-wants-turn-medicare-voucher-prog/

Did you actually read that article? First of all, Ryan's plan doesn't affect current seniors at all. They get grandfathered in (no pun intended) to the current system. Second of all, we don't know yet whether the voucher system itself would provide equivalent benefits that the current system does. It's just a change from "send us your bills and then we'll tell you how much we'll cover" to "here is money, which you can apply as necessary". The article further states that vouchers could be applied to either private insurance or a plan similar to traditional Medicare.

Spekwyse wrote:How about those tax cuts to the middle class he promised? Wait did you say he's going to give those to the rich and tax the middle class more? =O Did NOT see that coming.

Lol.

Spekwyse wrote:UPDATE: Oh my bad, Romney changed his plan again on the debate last night...

You mean Romney clarified that various Obama campaign ads were outright false?

Spekwyse wrote:"He has proposed making the Bush tax cuts permanent for all income levels -- then cutting all rates by an additional 20 percent. He would also repeal the alternative minimum tax and permanently repeal the estate tax."

BUT WAIT THERES MORE

"The non-partisan Tax Policy Center concluded that Romney's tax plan would cost $4.8 trillion over 10 years."
Excellent plan to help with the debt Romney, kiss kiss.
source: http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/03/14207584-truth-squad-the-debate?lite

Except that, as the very article you linked stated, the Tax Policy Center only had half of the equation. They looked explicitly at tax cuts, but not at other reforms to the tax law. The article I linked above goes on to state that Romney has not released enough details about his tax plan for any accurate model to be made. You should be critiquing the Romney tax plan for being overly vague, rather than spouting such bullshit dribble.

Spekwyse wrote:But hey just ignore that shit, Romney is just like every normal American! He pays taxes on his accounts! Wait whats that? bank account in the cayman islands? He's not paying for those? Well lets just ignore that and move on shall we?
"A guy with a tax account in the Cayman Islands is attacking other people for not wanting to pay income tax?"
source: www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-bill-clinton-romney-taxes-debt-20121003,0,6581196.story

Again, you're attacking this from the wrong angle. Rather than regurgitating bullshit that the media says, you should attack Romney for refusing to admit how much he has in his off shore accounts. For all we know, they're worthless and Romney is just paranoid.

Spekwyse wrote:Well say all the shit you want on Romney, but his VP candidate is top notch just look at this quote...
"Seventy percent of Americans want the American dream. They believe in the American idea. Only 30 percent want the welfare state," Ryan said. "Before too long, we could become a society where the net majority of Americans are takers, not makers."
YEAH! Fuck those 30% of Americans! They all WANT to be poor its their CHOICE. They most definitely want that over being well off im sure.
souce: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/02/paul-ryan-30-percent-welfare-state_n_1933730.html

Again, did you actually read the whole article? Or even the full quote in question?

Paul Ryan wrote:The point is, we are reaching a fiscal tipping point. The moral tipping point is even worse, and the moral tipping point is before too long, we could become a society we were never ever intended to be: we could become a society where the net majority of Americans are takers, not makers. Another think tank, the Tax Foundation, runs lots of good numbers. Those of you who don't know me, I'm kind of a numbers guy. 20% of Americans, according to the Tax Foundation, get 70% of their- 75% of their income from the federal government. They're dependent. Another 20% of Americans get 40% of their income from the federal government, so they're reliant. Today, 70% of Americans get more benefits from the federal government in dollar value than they pay back in taxes. So you could argue that we're already past that tipping point. The good news is: survey after survey, poll after poll, still shows that we are a center-right 70-30 country. 70% of Americans want the American dream; they believe in the American idea. Only 30% want their welfare state. What that tells us is at least half of those people who are currently in that category are there not of their wish or their will. They believe in that horizon that they're shooting for. They're down on their luck; they're out of their job; they're back at school. They want the American idea and they want their kids to be better off. But slowly but surely, if we don't watch this, if we allow all this government that iss being stacked up kick in we will reach that moral tipping point.

Spekwyse wrote:Did i mention he called the Telsa Motors a loser?
source: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/10/romney-tesla-loser/

I wouldn't exactly call them a winner if they needed a half billion dollar loan from the government.

Spekwyse wrote:Fuck Romney.

Im an independent, but im definitely voting for Obama this year.

Where "independent" here is defined as someone easily swayed by the media.

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Re: Presidential Race

Post by Tylertlat on Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:44 pm

Lord Pheonix wrote:Then fuck you faggy.

I'm just gonna point this out, you would not hear Romney or a Romney support say that (with exception for the fringe evident in any large political party).

Really, the only people I hear using sexist, racist, or homophobic slurs are when people (generally democrats or Obama supporters) attempt to put in their own word what they see as Romney's position.
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Re: Presidential Race

Post by Lord Pheonix on Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:52 pm

They still want to deny a portion of American citizens the right to marry who they want because their own religion or prejudice.

They want to force their own beliefs on gays and that is just not cool in my books.

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Re: Presidential Race

Post by Tylertlat on Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:06 pm

For reasons Civ pointed out in the appropriate thread there is disagreement on that point.

So at this point, it looks like you have a political contention with the other party and so are making a sweeping personal attack.
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Re: Presidential Race

Post by Lord Pheonix on Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:14 pm

A attack against people that do not believe gays should have same rights as every other American and call their relationships disgusting or against human nature because of their personal belief and enact restrictions on them seem to be asking for it.


If they wish to discriminate against a minority because of their Religion and put laws into affect because of it then they need to man the fuck up when being attacked themselves.


The 2 or 3 people on this site may say that it isn't an argument about religion but the "word" of marriage, but that is bullshit. They hate on a minority because of their religion and put discriminating laws against them for it. That is shit that America is suppose to stand against, not support.



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Re: Presidential Race

Post by Lord Pheonix on Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:18 pm

If a group is willing to openly discriminate then I just can not stand behind them.

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Re: Presidential Race

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